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EvansKnight

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When entering a person. Do not put their nationality as the Clan name. There is a nationality field in the events tab. This is the proper place to note nationality. Please make changes on all of your entries to have the paternal surname as the clan name Almoustine 06:20, 3 February 2011 (EET)

Contents

[edit] Help

Hi EvansKnight.

I decided to implement advanced search in Rodovid.EN, because nobody has done it before.

I know how to do it but it needs some translations. Could you check my english? It's very simple: first check these short messages:

These ones are much more longer :

Take care of WikiSyntax Thank you. --Christophe Tesson - talk. 09:24, 22 July 2015 (EEST)

[edit] Hi

Just a short message to thanks you for your work in RD, it seems you try to clean the data base too :-) BR --Charles 00:16, 7 August 2015 (EEST)

[edit] Location Format

If I can ask, why have you been changing the location format on the English tree? City (State) doesn't seem like it's descriptive enough, and also that format isn't standard in any kind of record keeping with which I am familiar. Is there a rationale behind this? City, County, State/Province, Country is/has been the standard for any genealogy records I've been using for the past 20 years, so I just wanted to know what the rationale behind this. EvansKnight 19:38, 10 September 2015 (EEST)

  • Thanks for your question and your work in RD.

Rodovid.en has no rule for place names.

So there are a lot of ambiguous places written in records.

It's well known, in other Rodovid localizations that the simplest way to avoid places ambiguity is to use Wikipedia titles for each place name.


Unfortunately, it's impossible to use en.Wikipedia titles for "Place:" pages in Rodovid.EN, because of the comma between place name and disambiguation part. See for instance:

  • Place:Hartford

Hartford in Connecticut is written

  • "Hartford, Connecticut" in Wikipedia

But this disambiguation system cannot be used in Rodovid : trying to indicate a place name that way in a record ends with the software writing 2 different places:

  1. Hartford, which is ambiguous
  2. Connecticut

So, we propose a rule to write place names in Rodovid.EN:

  1. Use Wikipedia titles
  2. Use disambiguation rules commonly employed in other localizations of Wikipedia, in this case: Hartford (Connecticut)


If you prefer another format please propose something, but something which avoid

  • ambiguation (Hartford)
  • duplicates (Kiev USSR and Kiev Ukraine are the same place - idem for Byzance, Constantinople, Istanbul)

Anyway, we always will find somebody who don't agree!

See also:

--Christophe Tesson - talk. 09:45, 11 September 2015 (EEST)

I didn't mean to imply that I was upset about the change, I just wasn't sure of the rationale behind it. I didn't realize you all were so concerned with cross-functionality with Wikipedia, but whatever works. I feel like there will be a loss of precision on most records, but moving forward I'll adhere to the accepted norms from now on. EvansKnight 00:30, 12 September 2015 (EEST)

The reason for this simplification is not directly the cross-functionality with Wikipedia but the basic use of Rodovid as a genealogy tool.
If you want to obtain a list of all persons who lived in a town or a district (to follow families or avoid duplicates), you have to go to the page dedicated to that location and use the "what links here" or "advanced search" functions.
That page must be unique for each location, so using the same title as the corresponding wikipedia page is very efficient (with parentheses replacing commas).
But in most linguistic versions of Rodovid, the creation of these pages has been neglected. In this version, there are more than 39000 of these red links (places, lineages, families, redirections) waiting to be created or corrected. (I don't know how many there are in Russian : my browser gets blocked).
Adding counties and historical territories increases even more the number of pages to create (and to categorize).
But I think that Tesson would not mind if you continue to use the full format for places (city to country), as long as you create and categorize the pages for each entity (to avoid these red links). And this is a lot of work. Dn Gov 03:00, 12 September 2015 (EEST)
I'm glad you're not upset! I'm not!
As Dane said, the purpose is not to agree with Wikipedia! I propose this system because disembiguation is a enormous work… wich is already done in Wikipedia!
So:
  • this proposed method needs less work than any other
  • any user can fill place-fields with any precision he needs: e.g.
    • "Plymouth (Massachusetts), Plymouth Colony"
    • "Plymouth (Massachusetts), Plymouth County (Massachusetts), Massachusetts, United States"
    • etc.
For varying names, you can write e.g.:
born 1204 "Istanbull" plus this comment "then called Constantinople" or something like that.
NB: I just work on ambiguous place names. May I continue my work? --Christophe Tesson - talk. 11:14, 12 September 2015 (EEST)

Help needed! What should we do with a place like this:

[edit] Place names (again :-)

Hello EK!

I'm stills studying disembiguation of english place names.

I've seen your very nice work about administrative situation of places in histrory.

Disembiguation will help you in this work: you will just have to write it once (in the place page). less work than writing it in each "Person:" page.

I still do have question about this work. Could you please read this post and give your opinion?

Thanks a lot! --Christophe Tesson - talk. 12:59, 22 October 2015 (EEST)

[edit] Cörle ?

Hi EK!

Thanks for your answer and your support.

There's now less than 33,000 wanted pages. We have corrected more than 6000 red links!

I have a question: you wrote "Cörle" as a place name, several times. (i.e. Nicolaus Pfeiffer (Pfeiffer, b. 1632 d. 1696)). I can't find any mention of such a place, exept Corle. Could you be more precise about this place ? --Christophe Tesson - talk. 10:59, 18 November 2015 (EET)

So Sorry Christophe! I'm working from primary sources, and they all date from before the K became standard in Germany, so the village is spelled Cörle. Sorry for the confusion EvansKnight 18 novembre 2015 à 22:15 (EET)
Don't be sorry! It's not important! But it's a good example. What do you decide:
  • To write place name as you read it (Cörle), and then advanced search does not work, because there will be several "Place:" pages for only one physical place. We can then partially fix the problem, writing a "Place:" page named "Place:Cörle" redirecting to "Place:Körle". But it will need several search instead of one.
  • To write as it is written in Wikipedia (Körle), plus "Cörle" in "detail field", then, advanced search is working.
About primary sources. Remember that 17th and 18th century priests were writing as they were listening. So, you can find different spelling for the same place, written by the same pen. i.e. : Écausseville = 1709 : Escalleville - 1726 : Ecausseville - Escosseville - 1735 : Ecausseville - etc.
My opinion : it's better, and much more simple to use nowadays spelling, and to note variants on the "Place:" page (see exemple of Écausseville, here is Google translation
--Christophe Tesson - talk. 10:03, 19 November 2015 (EET)
PS: Try to speak with other admins and users in Rodovid.EN to write toguether a strict Policy. (see : Rodovid_EN:Community_Portal#Answers)

[edit] Logan County, Virginia?

Hi!

How are you?

I guess you've made a little mistake writing this place name :

  • Logan County, Virginia

Wikipedia only knows :

  • Logan County, West Virginia

(Confusion between Virginia and West Virginia is very common in Rodovid.RD)

So we could write :

  • Logan County (West Virginia)

Could you check this point?

Linked page to Logan County, Virginia, are here:

--Christophe Tesson - talk. 11:24, 14 December 2015 (EET)

  • Logan County was founded in 1824, West Virginia only became a state in 1862, so it was a part of the state of Virginia in the interim. You are right, though, it is now in West Virginia. The change makes sense, though, since my method of recording places as they were known at the time of the event recorded is not standard. I need to remember to stop doing that.

EvansKnight 20:25, 21 December 2015 (EET)

  • You are right too!
  • Thanks a lot. You can add in "comment" field : then Logan County was in Virginia.
  • Faster method, you can write a brief history of Logan County in Place:Logan County (West Virginia)
Happy new year !!! --Christophe Tesson - talk. 16:28, 2 January 2016 (EET)

[edit] Hov, Sigdal, Buskerud, Norway?

Hi Evans

I don't understand these place names:

  1. Hov, Sigdal, Buskerud, Norway
  2. Strand, Sigdal, Buskerud, Norway
  3. Sund, Sigdal, Buskerud, Norway

See: Helge Gulliksdatter (Hov, b. 1705 d. 1756), Mari Helgesdatter (Sund, b. 1652 d. 1723)

And some others… Could you provide some sources?

Thank you. --Christophe Tesson - talk. 18:00, 7 February 2016 (EET)

Hi Christopher. They're gardnavner, or farm names. I'll have to see if I can find and scan in my sources because I was working from onion skin copies of old norwegian church records and stuff that my grandmother recorded in a spiral binder when she was there in the 1970s so I'm not sure how to source them until then.EvansKnight 9 février 2016 à 20:07 (EET)
Ah! OK! in french we call that "lieu-dit" (said-place!). This is the second question about place names: what is the size of the smallest interesting place for a collaborative genealogy site? My opinion is: this can be a simple house. But it needs to be sourced, as any information.
exemples :
Let you decide if you create a "Place:" page for each of these place, or if you write them in "comment" field on each record. --Christophe Tesson - talk. 21:09, 9 February 2016 (EET)
You're right! It makes more sense to put them in the comments field, just for purposes of not cluttering up the database. I'll go about doing that soon.EvansKnight 19:33, 16 February 2016 (EET)

[edit] Russian india?

Hi EK!

I'm terribly embarassed… You're working on english translation of russian pages about Indian dynasties, why not.

But you have to imagine that you have readers. And reading a web page, half in blue half in red, half in russian, half in english is not nice. In fact it's quite impossible.

Could you please:

  1. Translate everything in each record: place names, events, titles, notes etc?
  2. create all new needed place-pages?
  3. create all needed familly-pages?

Every time you write something in red, this means that you have something more to do! (remenber Rodovid creates automatic links, red or blue, it is not like Wikipedia)

On the other hand, records you create in Rodovid.EN have only Rodovid.RU as source. This way rodovid runs auto-referential. This seems really strange, don't you agree?

So excuse me. I've tagged almost every last pages you've created with nasty templates.

Friendly yours --Christophe Tesson - talk. 11:52, 30 April 2016 (EEST)

Hi Christopher.
I'm a little confused, because these Russian pages were messily transferred over to the English localization with out being translated, and so I'm just doing waht I can to make them at the very least legible to people who are on the English version of the site. Should I not do that? The English localization has to be the single most bizarre collection of untranslated lineages that seem to have been lifted wholesale from other language versions (don't even get me started on the indonesian pages, which I think should be deleted).
EvansKnight 4 mai 2016 à 19:23 (EEST)
Oh! I'm sorry, I thought you were creating these translated pages.
The trick is to take each page and turn it blue. Don't leave any red link!
And because each record displays birth place on parents pages, begin with most recent records, and jump to parents page (etc.)
Don't try tu use russian habits with "Place:" pages, just write the shortest disembiguated place name.
etc.
Thanks for your help! --Christophe Tesson - talk. 16:34, 5 May 2016 (EEST)

No, no, if you look at the date of the pages original creation they got cloned into the English rodovid years ago but just sat there unsearchable because they were all in Russian. I did not realize about the kids before parents thing, that makes sense, and I'll make a point to do that from now on.

EvansKnight 5 mai 2016 à 22:04 (EEST)

Remember that Rodovid.EN can display Rodovid.RU records (then almost every links will be red).
So, if a record in Rodovid.EN has no translation (or if it is poorly translated), because you have sysop's rights, you can erase it: there will be no loss of info! (Well, just a waste of time…) --Christophe Tesson - talk. 10:13, 6 May 2016 (EEST)

[edit] Du Passage (Source template)

Hello EV!

I've noticed your smart work about du Passage family.

I've written for you a "Source template"

You can read how it works on this page:

This can be usefull for you: it's easy to use just copy-paste:

{{Histoire Généalogique De La Maison Du Passage|View=|Page=}}

in note field, and write

  • View number
  • page number

where needed. So then in quote will lead on the right page of your book wich is online in Gallica (french state online library)

You will find "view number" in web adress, just after letter /f. example

For this page view number is 164, and page number is 133.

So write:

{{Histoire Généalogique De La Maison Du Passage|View=164|Page=133}}

The result will be:

Rodolphe-Marie-Théodore de Brandt De Galametz. Histoire généalogique de la maison Du Passage en Soissonnais et Picardie. Arras: Imprimerie De La Société Du Pas-de-Calais, 1887. Print. - Page:133

I hope you will find this usefull. If you use it, it will be a great step for Rodovid.EN!

See also: Source:Histoire généalogique de la maison Du Passage en Soissonnais et Picardie.

--Christophe Tesson - talk. 15:03, 19 May 2016 (EEST)

[edit] It's happening again

some user named DN-gov is adding fictitious records with non-english sources to the english rodovid and I'm not sure who to stop them. The English rodovid is alraedy so jammed full of redundant and absurd indonesian and malaysian-sourced recrods that it's kind of a joke. any advice?

EvansKnight 24 mai 2016 à 00:40 (EEST)

I've written to DnGov, I guess it just misanderstanding. You can write to him on his page:
Could you give me examples of his fictionnal records? --Christophe Tesson - talk. 11:21, 24 May 2016 (EEST)

PS: I'm glad you found your source template usefull. Don't be afraid to ask for other ones. PPS: you've created two isolated records:

Hello !
I'm not trying to add fictitious records : if you're talking about yesterday's edits, these pages had been created by Almoustine and Indonesian users, and I'm only putting the same "persons" in the correct order. Personally, I don't really care if controversial pages like these are included or deleted in Rodovid, but if they stay, they must be coherent.
If you look at this picture of Wikipedia (bottom left corner), you will see that this line at least reflects "tradition".
I did not erase sources in other languages because I was not sure if there was a risk it would erase them also in the Indonesian version.
Since I have you "on the phone", I noticed that duplicates had been created for the family of Gandhi : uk:Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi (Mahatma Gandhi) (Gandhi, b. 2 October 1869 d. 30 January 1948) and Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi (Mahatma Gandhi) (Gandhi, b. 2 October 1869), etc. Can you do something ? Thanks. Dn Gov (d) 20:00, 24 May 2016 (EEST)

[edit] Gandhi

I know it's Rodovid policy to merge the newer record with the older records, but my versions are so much more extensive and already in English, I honestly think it would be easier to just delete the Ukrainian/Russian records and leave mine be, but I don't want to violate any rules, you know? It's a shame so many of the Cyrillic records existed prior, bc they're essentially unsearchable in the English Rodovid unless you think to do it beforehand, and it's such a hassle.

EvansKnight 23:25, 25 May 2016 (EEST)

You're right. In cases like this one, I don't know what is the best. Dn Gov (d) 01:00, 27 May 2016 (EEST)
I never understood this strange rule: to merge the newer record with the older records. Obviously it's counterproductive. IMHO just tag russian and ukrainian duplictates with "delete" template and give the reason why.
On the other hand, I noticed your Source:Livre d'or de la noblesse Ionienne. Do you want a source template? Is this book readable online? --Christophe Tesson - talk. 12:24, 28 May 2016 (EEST)

[edit] Livre d'Or

On the other hand, I noticed your Source:Livre d'or de la noblesse Ionienne. Do you want a source template? Is this book readable online? --Christophe Tesson - talk. 12:24, 28 May 2016 (EEST)

Yes! I was trying to figure out how to do it and I got side tracked, but that would be lovely, because the three volumes are the primary source for a large number of records I've created so I need to go back and fix them all. It's SORT OF readable online, in a very different format than the gallica one, at (http://anemi.lib.uoc.gr/metadata/4/b/5/metadata-02-0000476.tkl)- EvansKnight 31 mai 2016 à 22:01 (EEST)
Am I right if I understand that the three volumes are gathered in only one online .pdf, at this web adress:
http://anemi.lib.uoc.gr/php/pdf_pager.php?rec=/metadata/4/b/5/metadata-02-0000476.tkl&do=150039.pdf&pageno=1&width=510&height=799&pagestart=1&maxpage=567&lang=en
? 567 pages? --Christophe Tesson - talk. 09:38, 1 June 2016 (EEST)

→Done! The code is:

{{Livre d'or de la noblesse Ionienne|Page=|Volume=}}
  • Page is required
  • Volume is optional (not easy to find in the .pdf)

Test:
With mention of volume:

Without:

It would be great for you (and Rodovid.EN ;-) to study

  • Wiki Syntax
  • Wiki parser functions

Not so difficult, and usefull.

You can find help pages through wikipedia, and help pages in Rodovid.FR, about parser functions:

Have a nice day! --Christophe Tesson - talk. 15:07, 2 June 2016 (EEST)

[edit] Is everything OK?

Hello EV

I noticed that you didn't used your new template. Is there any problem?

Friendly yours --Christophe Tesson - talk. 16:48, 18 June 2016 (EEST)

[edit] Back to reason

Hello !
Two days ago, CharlesF announced us that he wanted to leave. He wrote that he loved contributing but that he could not continue due to conflicts with Almoustine. He had been active since 2010 on Rodovid, adding records and correcting many errors on dynasties, and he had been doing that across language localizations (English, French, German, Dutch, Spanish, Russian), something that nobody else did. But he had problems with Almoustine about European dynasties of the early Middle Ages.
Almoustine added many records for figures of ancient times, but she seems to do that with the sole purpose of linking or merging people who have nothing to do with each other. When working on the ancestors of Childeric, the earliest King of the Franks, she did nothing but create a mess :

  • on the record of his possible grandfather "Clodius (Clovis) (Claffo) de Salii of Metz the Long-Hair Langobard", she gave him over the years 6 fathers (Théodemir 31320, Pharamond 105801, Valerius Adelphius 134074, Valerius Publicola 144095, Tiberius Julius Saromates Suomar Sunno Syunik Sanasar Valinak Siak 31286, Septimus Claudius Pharamondus Varasdates Mihran/Merovingan 31404) and 4 mothers (Blesinde 31411, Valentina 133735, Argota 107618, Flavia 359946)
  • in the previous generation, for "Chlodio de Cologne Septimus Claudius Pharamondus Varasdates Mihran/Merovingan" she gave him at least 4 fathers (Ghadam of Iberia 392862, Genebald 107698 and 360634, Tiberius Julius Saromates Suomar Sunno Syunik Sanasar Valinak Siak 31286, Son of Gabinius 569257), and 5 mothers (Argota 107618 et 385565, Sister of Marcomer of the Marcomanni 570963, Fritigil Queen of the Marcomanni 360699, Gallia Zenobia 596320, ? Mamikonia 944305)
  • in the previous generation, for [[Person:31286|"Sunno de Francie Tiberius Julius Saromates Suomar Sunno Syunik Sanasar Valinak Siak"] (deleted), she gave him 10 fathers (Priarios de Toxandrie 31285, Petronius Probinus 273314, Father of Sunno and Andok 570957, Tiberius Julius Synges Volturi 401193, Tiberius Julius Pharsanzes 401197, Tiberius Julius Teiranes 401188, Tiberius Julius Odennes Auden Sigisson Outham Senis 164077, Tiberius Julius Rhadamsades I 401175, Rostam Rhadamistus 87802, ? 943476) and 5 mothers (Clodia 273341, Zuara 171670, Fritigil Queen of the Marcomanni 360699, Daughter of Herod of Palmyra 596298, Zenobia 392919)

It's simply insane.
But Almoustine calls that "research" and says that to collect these data "several persons … have risked their lives to research in areas where it was sometimes very dangerous".
Instead of bringing new contributors to Rodovid, she pushes serious members out. CharlesF wrote that because of these stupidities Rodovid is the object of sarcasm on the internet.
As for me, I am not a big contributor for Rodovid EN (I mainly created pages for places with my second account Dn-Gov), but I don't want to have everything ruined by some wacko.
On Rodovid like on Wikipedia, it is the role of sysops to dismiss another admin if he or she does a bad job. I think it's time : you and Koavf should ask Baya to cancel the admin rights of Almoustine.
What's your opinion? Dn Gov (d) 01:00, 21 June 2016 (EEST)

[edit] Louise Denise Clérel de Tocqueville

Hello!

I've given some first hand source to this record you created. Just one line in civil records of Querqueville. Nothing more in online sources! --Christophe Tesson - talk. 15:14, 4 April 2017 (EEST)

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